Looks like were going to share a "sidewalk detour" with pedestrians.
http://www.calgary.ca/CSPS/Parks/Documents/Pathways/Closures/pathway-closure-fort-calgary.pdf
It seems we're seeing more and more "sidewalk bikepaths", or asphalt-paved, yellow-lined wide pathways where one would expect sidewalks. Examples are in both the latest projects the City has undertake (U of C/Brentwood improvements and the North Hill improvements) as well as in (relatively) newly built subdivisions and roadways like 12 Mile Coulee, Hawkwood, Country Hills Blvd, ...
I think these are bad for a number of reasons, the chief being that they confuse the issue of "should bikes be on the sidewalks". Of the few yelling drivers I've encountered, "get on the fucking sidewalk" is a popular phrase -- and I see plenty of inexperienced-looking cyclists using sidewalks.
Since intersections are the most-dangerous place for cyclists (in cities), it would seem infrastructure that drastically *increases* the chance of conflict (namely: sidewalk bikepaths) are a terrible idea.
At least they don't involve moving the curbs and asphalt is a lot cheaper than cement to put down, which seem like very likely explanations to their popularity with both Transportation and developers.
These 'paved sidewalks' are typically built by Roads and handed (sometimes out of the blue) to Parks to own/operate. Issues arising from the consultation process(or lack of it) follows the asset.
Obviously, this is one of the things that needs improvement.
Although they've done a decent job with 19th, I still think something on-road (but possibly separated if required, like 53rd in Bowness) would be better.
Also in the case of 19th there's better ways up the hill anyway.
I usually take Sumac Road/24th Street to the 16th Avenue overpass if I have a heavy load (e.g. kid trailer) or 17/17a or 18a street if not. Somewhat depends on where you're heading from the top, too. You can also take 10th and diagonal through SAIT if you don't mind the illegal-left to get through SAIT off 10th.
View 19th Street Hill Options in a larger map
There is a more gentle hill a few blocks over to the east - I think it might be 16a street. It's a nicer route due to some greenery/park area (and some interesting housing architecture). It's a bit of a bother at the top of the hill, depending on where you want to go from there.
The City just repaved 19th and the carrets (is that the word?) symbols are nice and clear...for now. Last time they wore off in about a year
This detour is maddening if one was to try to ride it as shown in the PDF file referenced above. I was coming from DT to Inglewood, west to east.
They made a little paved path through from the detour sign to Confluence Way. Then "No Cycling on the Sidewalk!" so I need to get on Confluence Way. Over the big drop square curb I guess. Down Confluence Way to 6th Ave and then onto 6th Street. No riding on the sidewalk, we are again admonished. Except once you get past 7th Ave you are supposed to jump back across traffic, across the sidewalk, and on to the new paved path beside it. Then down to 9th Ave, where I need to dismount, wait for the light, run across the road and continue on down 9th Ave eastbound. Because, you know, no cycling on the sidewalk.
Once I got to the bridge, it was a mystery what they expected me to do. Cross to the north side of the road to rejoin the path? Dip to the right, some how get across 7th St SE and go under the bridge? Stuff it, I just kept riding down 9th.
There is already a dirt track from 6th St to the Ft Calgary parking lot that they could have readily upgraded a bit, and used the Ft Calgary lands to get around this project.
I went into DT at 7:00, but it was too dark to read the detour sign so I winged it. Joined the steady stream of riders using the sidewalk on the N side of 9th Ave and along 6th St. Come winter, I have strong doubts any of this mess will be cleared.
Is there now a sign about 'No Cycling on the Sidewalk'? I rode there on Tuesday night and I used the tiny path and brick sidewalk all the way around it.
is this the future?
Submitted by mikewarren on
It seems we're seeing more and more "sidewalk bikepaths", or asphalt-paved, yellow-lined wide pathways where one would expect sidewalks. Examples are in both the latest projects the City has undertake (U of C/Brentwood improvements and the North Hill improvements) as well as in (relatively) newly built subdivisions and roadways like 12 Mile Coulee, Hawkwood, Country Hills Blvd, ...
I think these are bad for a number of reasons, the chief being that they confuse the issue of "should bikes be on the sidewalks". Of the few yelling drivers I've encountered, "get on the fucking sidewalk" is a popular phrase -- and I see plenty of inexperienced-looking cyclists using sidewalks.
Since intersections are the most-dangerous place for cyclists (in cities), it would seem infrastructure that drastically *increases* the chance of conflict (namely: sidewalk bikepaths) are a terrible idea.
At least they don't involve moving the curbs and asphalt is a lot cheaper than cement to put down, which seem like very likely explanations to their popularity with both Transportation and developers.
easy way out
Submitted by critninja on
This detour is bullshit and I am guessing that the pedestrians using the sidewalk will not be very excited about it.
Cue the pissed off pedestrian/bike hater comments in the paper...
This is an historical problem.
Submitted by chrisguy on
These 'paved sidewalks' are typically built by Roads and handed (sometimes out of the blue) to Parks to own/operate. Issues arising from the consultation process(or lack of it) follows the asset.
Obviously, this is one of the things that needs improvement.
I see
Submitted by NW_Tri_and_Bike on
your point but there is some value in having them on steep hills next to major roads
19th?
Submitted by mikewarren on
Is this what you mean? Are there other examples?
Although they've done a decent job with 19th, I still think something on-road (but possibly separated if required, like 53rd in Bowness) would be better.
Also in the case of 19th there's better ways up the hill anyway.
What is a good route up the
Submitted by cyclinggranny on
What is a good route up the 19th Street NW hill?
Two Options
Submitted by mikewarren on
View 19th Street Hill Options in a larger map
19th street NW hill dodge
Submitted by theorangejacket on
There is a more gentle hill a few blocks over to the east - I think it might be 16a street. It's a nicer route due to some greenery/park area (and some interesting housing architecture). It's a bit of a bother at the top of the hill, depending on where you want to go from there.
The City just repaved 19th and the carrets (is that the word?) symbols are nice and clear...for now. Last time they wore off in about a year
17a/17th
Submitted by mikewarren on
...is what you're talking about I think.
Those symbols are usually called "Sharrows", and yes they look nice and fresh right now.
yes and yes
Submitted by theorangejacket on
thats it - thanks, I need to get some sleep obviously :)
19th Street hill bypass
Submitted by cyclinggranny on
Thanks. I'll try the Sumac route. Maybe I won't have to get off and push!!
Fences going-in...
Submitted by chaingunsofdoom on
Orange fences started going-up yesterday night. I'd expect them to be done that today. Might be closed tomorrow/Monday?
Rode it this morning
Submitted by InglewoodGuy on
This detour is maddening if one was to try to ride it as shown in the PDF file referenced above. I was coming from DT to Inglewood, west to east.
They made a little paved path through from the detour sign to Confluence Way. Then "No Cycling on the Sidewalk!" so I need to get on Confluence Way. Over the big drop square curb I guess. Down Confluence Way to 6th Ave and then onto 6th Street. No riding on the sidewalk, we are again admonished. Except once you get past 7th Ave you are supposed to jump back across traffic, across the sidewalk, and on to the new paved path beside it. Then down to 9th Ave, where I need to dismount, wait for the light, run across the road and continue on down 9th Ave eastbound. Because, you know, no cycling on the sidewalk.
Once I got to the bridge, it was a mystery what they expected me to do. Cross to the north side of the road to rejoin the path? Dip to the right, some how get across 7th St SE and go under the bridge? Stuff it, I just kept riding down 9th.
There is already a dirt track from 6th St to the Ft Calgary parking lot that they could have readily upgraded a bit, and used the Ft Calgary lands to get around this project.
I went into DT at 7:00, but it was too dark to read the detour sign so I winged it. Joined the steady stream of riders using the sidewalk on the N side of 9th Ave and along 6th St. Come winter, I have strong doubts any of this mess will be cleared.
Is there now a sign about 'No
Submitted by chaingunsofdoom on
Is there now a sign about 'No Cycling on the Sidewalk'? I rode there on Tuesday night and I used the tiny path and brick sidewalk all the way around it.