New Bike Lanes on 10 St NW

Yay!Over the weekend, the City's begun painting in the road markings on the newly repaved 10 St NW ... and there are bike lanes going from 5 Ave NW all the way up to where 10 St turns into Cambrian Dr (intersection with Rosehill Dr).  Lanes are painted up to 16 Ave NW, north of that they are still just "pencilled in".  Expect them to be painted soon.  The yellow center line is still missing, too.  For the most part, the lanes are suitably wide, between 1 and 1.5 m.  From 23 Ave south the bike lane is next to the curb, north of that (i.e., along Confederation Park, it is to the left of a parking lane, but wide enough to avoid being completely in the door zone.  Notable additional features: at the intersection with 16 Av, cyclists share the bus lane when waiting to cross 16 Ave, and are allowed to proceed on the advance bus signal.  There's a sign by the edge of the road near the intersection with 5 Ave (southbound) that instructs cyclists to "use the bicycle box for left turn".  The bike box isn't there (yet?).

We have some pictures up for your enjoyment. And please check out the City's information page on the project.

A southbound driving lane has been removed for this pilot project, so expect some gripes from drivers.  Signs instruct drivers and cyclists to call 3-1-1 for information about the project.  Let's use this exciting piece of cycling infrastructure and show Calgary that indeed, if they build it, we will come and ride on it.  And call 3-1-1 (or email 3-1-1ContactUs@calgary.ca) to express your support for the project, and let the Councillor for Ward 7, Druh Farrell, know that you appreciate the work done to promote cycling in her ward!

There are a few areas that may cause confusion or invite misuse.  Extra care must be taken at the intersection with 16 Ave, both north- and southbound, where the bike lane essentially crosses the turn lanes. At the intersection of 10 St and 5 Ave southbound, the rightmost lane turns into a right-turn lane just before the intersection. Cyclists going through or turning left will have to merge left at the same place where cars turning right onto 5 Ave have to merge into the turn lane.  Halfawy up the hill, there is no good way for northbound cyclists to cross 10 St to get onto SAIT Way. A cyclist would still have to merge across two lanes of northboundtraffic to turn left here.  [Update: see first comment -- they can't and shouldn't anyway!] It's unclear if anything could have been done here to accommodate cyclists, though, and students going to SAIT can go up further to 13 Ave and use the crosswalk there.  Coming the other way, there are a number of ramps on the southbound bike lane to enter the SAIT campus.

 

Forums: 

10th Street Bike Lanes

Very excited to see this but it needed to be done in one go. The lines need to ALL be there when people take to the street so there is less confusion for cyclists and drivers (people were still driving in the bike lane beside Confed Park during evening rush). A comment about Richard's comments - Cars are not allowed to turn left on NB 10th St into SAIT - bikes shouldn't either (as you mentioned just go to 13th Ave). I was concerned about commuting by bike this winter... these lanes are just what I was looking for.

UPDATE: Rode in this morning from Confed Park using the new lane. Love the direct route (used to wind through Mt. Pleasant and Rosedale).

Vehicle traffic noticeably higher (slower??) - Hopefully won't lead to too much frustration.

Everyone has to stop behind transit now. A stopped bus blocks bike and vehicle lanes - keep your head up when around those transit drivers.

Overall - Love the effort. Don't love the execution.

Phone 311 they are great

These lanes are really good, and losing a few blocks of dual lanes for northbound cars (from 16th to 24th) *shouldn't* be that big of a deal.

Southbound, a lane is lost from 24th until 5th but in my experience it's usually fairly sparse traffic.

Hopefully once the signs and "real" lines are in north of 16th there will be less confusion -- I saw a lot of drivers still trying to make two lanes out of it and getting honked at when they failed.

Please, please, please everyone phone 311 or use calgary.ca here to thank the City for these lanes -- it's called a "Pilot Project" for a reason and the City definitely responds to 311 stuff most of the time.

You can bet any frustrated motorist who saw the "Please call 311" signs that are up will be doing so...

i dunno...

...seems like (from the curb) turning lane, bike lane, through lane would be better...but what you'd do after the intersection might be weird (especially if you're trying to turn left on 9A street).

It also seems like a bad idea to disallow Calgary's favourite driving thing: turning right on a red. Since 10th street is "usually" green, I certainly like turning right on the red off 5th and having the bike box there isn't going to facilitate that.

Similarly with the bike-lane on 5th at 14th: an allowance for drivers to turn right on the red while giving bikes somewhere to wait would be a lot better. Normalize the behavior of letting drivers by you on the right to turn (I do this on, for example, 20th all the time).

Can't Wait to Try the New Bike Lanes

These bike lanes will be a significant help for anyone trying to cycle into Kensington/Downtown from anywhere in the north central area.

Even though I live quite far north (north of 64 Ave near Center Street), on the occasion I do ride to the area (at least a half dozen times per year) it has always been a challenge to find a good route. Looking forward to trying it out.

P.S. I sent a message to Druh Farrell in Ward 7 to express the thanks.

About 6 years ago they tried

About 6 years ago they tried putting temporary curb extensions on 4th st NW. I had just moved in and thought they were great. Unfortunately drivers didn't and petitioned to get rid of them, even though 4th street isn't all that busy. 4th would make a great bike route. Anyway, given how much busier 10th street is, I expect a LOT of blowback from drivers. The city will really have to hold their ground to keep these lanes.

Form the comments in the

Form the comments in the Herald story:

"If citizens really don't like it, flood City Hall with tweets and calls. It worked to get rid of the unnecessary traffic calming measures along parts of 4th St. NW."

Yup, thanks buddy. The stupid thing is most of that road only functions as 2 lanes anyway. It was a 10 block stretch with 4 lanes, what is the point? Did it REALLY slow your commute down, since you have to merge back in the left lane anyway?

Same deal with this 10th street route. Sure, traffic may get a little more congested, but you are just going to hit the wall-o-cars going through Kensignton anyway, so what's the rush?

cbc

The cbc radio news this morning was blaming a real backup in traffic on the new bicycle lanes this morning. More bad press.

boo CBC boo

I thought you were on "my" side. I wonder how backed up it actually was....
I'm not sure if the city is keeping any formal stats on who is using this bike lane, if so, it's too bad they didn't open it at the beginning of summer....
It's not on my route but I will pop over there and use it a couple of three times in the next little while, just to keep our hand in sort of.
Kudos to the city for making the effort.

Tracking

Hopefully the city has the resources or manpower to track traffic flows (of bikes and cars) before and after the lanes went in. Individual driver's anecdotes aren't that useful because you remember a little congestion more than a lot of free flowing traffic. And I bet many drivers are more likely to call 311 when they see a bike passing them, instead of say being stuck on Deerfoot. (Which has a million lanes, how does it ever get congested?)

busses

The issue seems to be the transit busses. When they stop all the cars stop. I am told this is what is causing the big traffic snarls.

I say adapt people, find another route. Or better yet

RIDE A BIKE!

heard that too but...

...did not see a single tweet with the hashtag #yyctraffic mentioning 10 st nw.

I remember when Vancouver installed the Burrard Bridge separated lane that motoring traffic was quite heavy for sometime until people figured it out and took a different route.

Call 311!

Be sure to call 311 in support of this bike lane! I've heard there have been a number of complaints about this bike lane (~100) and we need to show our support!

Concrete Barriers

I watched the bit on Global News and was wondering what the guy was on about the "curb extensions" so I rode down there after work. I rode it the other day and there was no problem and I wondered if something had changed? The lane is continuous and no one has to move into the traffic lane. It just seems a little weird to have the bike lane out from the curb like that.

The real issue is further north where it turns into a 'door zone' bike lane again (I got a flat there too but I can't blame the position of the lane for that). Can't have everything I guess. Strategically get rid of on street parking and we could have all the bike lanes we could ever need without impacting any motorized traffic.

Faster.

On the last two mornings I rode Northmount, down 10th and into downtown. I've found that this shaves anywhere from 5 to 10mn off my commute vs. the river pathway. Example, this morning I left 10mn later than usual and still got to my destination at the same time as previous. Obviously a substantial time saving. Of course, I could have done the same without bike lanes on 10th but it's unlikely I would because of the traffic volume. The lanes are definitely a win for cyclists. Hopefully they can entice a mode share change so that they make more sense from a volume perspective. It will take time but it's something I think the City needs.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/travel/bike+lane+10th+Street+causes+traffic...

Metro Article

http://www.metronews.ca/calgary/local/article/988139--new-bike-lanes-a-c...

It's interesting...much of the media coverage states that the lanes are causing confusion because they lack markings. Obviously this is going to be the case given that lines don't just magically appear on the street. It takes time to reconstruct the infrastructure. I think it will be pretty clear once the painting is completed (at least for as long as the lines hold up to the weather).

agreed

The other thing that every single print article and radio broadcast seems happy to omit is that the lights at 20/16/5 ave nw will be reworked to help with traffic flow.

but why mention it? controversy is way more interesting!

Confusion?

That's almost an Onion article with a picture of a guy looking purposefully confused in front of what's clearly either a lane for Shriners or cyclists...

group ride

suggestions on a #tag to organize riders? what about an email list from the cycling strategy group? It'd be nice to get at least 10 people out...

Passed by

Maybe that was you sj at the parking lot at the top of the hill after Confed.? If so, sorry for not stopping, I kind of assumed you meant meet at the comm. centre and didn't really clue in until after.

Waiting at the comm. centre gave me a chance to observe the road for a while. I didn't notice any traffic snarls. There were intervals of fairly steady traffic but vehicles were moving smoothly. There were long stretches of empty road as well.

Comments to alderman

Last night I sent positive comments to my Ward 1 alderman, Dale Hodges, with a cc: to Druh. This morning I received a thank you call from Dale's administrative assistant. She acknowledged that there had been several "negative comments" received in the office this morning. Let's keep up the positive feedback to the city and also try to keep the usage numbers up for those lanes!

blowback is good

I don't know how many of you attended Mia Birk's talk in the spring but she did say that a backlash is good - in that if you get a backlash than you have successfully changed the transport environment enough in favour of bikes for it to matter.

Well, looks like the city has done that.

As an aside, I saw a tweet from Ald. Farrell today that mentioned this - 10 st nw was slated for repaving this fall so they took the opportunity to do this now (maybe not the best time of year) because it will save thousands of $$$ doing it now than redoing it in the spring.

My suggestion - ride it as often as you can and don't worry about the backlash.

The news stories are saying

The news stories are saying the city will asses the success of the project in the spring . . .Shouldn't they wait a full year, since lets face it, the people who may see these as something to try out, give cycling to work a go, are not going to venture out in the fall or winter as an experiment? Lets see how they perform in low and high riding season, not just the winter. sigh. Its like they want to see failure.

Future = Bicycles, Let's Act Now

If doomsday forecasts of the growing global debt crisis are any indication (see link below), I'd say we should be voluntarily proactive and get used to transitioning to non-auto transportation before we're forced to (such as using the new bike lanes en masse).

http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pro/1108PSINEWVD/LPSIMA14/PR

Note: click the close window button, then cancel to read text instead of watching the video.

Not sure how accurate or balanced the above article is, but I think it is obvious that in the long term, individual fossil fuel powered cars are not sustainable for mass transport...

There needs to be a spokesperson-for media

It is critical that there be 1-2 spokesperson with predetermined approach on dealing with the Calgary Herald, CBC, other media press....from bikeCalgary.

The City can say their piece as the "builder" the bike lane.

Otherwise the public will continue to hammer negatively away to the dismay of different voices of cycling community. Of course, cyclists continue to add comments on Calgary Herald's articles to show support with helpful tweaking to present situation. It is clear evidence that can be printed off /kept/stored.

What was over the past few years, the car traffic volume on that whole route anyway....At different sections of route does it vary during day, during the week (weekend vs. weekday).

Someone at work who sits near me, said to me there's apparently 15, 000 vehicles on that route daily vs. 200 cyclists counted. Is that true?

Has the city installed pavement counters at certain intersections. I hope they do it from now to whenever snow flies.

On Oct. 18th, D. Mulligan will be speaking to business folks (non-profit, whoever) about bike plan at the annual Congress which is a key Calgary biz. networking event that is very popular. It is organized by the city. ($50.00) http://www.centrecitytalk.com/my_weblog/2011/09/centre-city-congress-ann...

Then send your stuff if at all possible before Oct. 18. Or if anyone here is going to it. (I'm not.)

Spokesperson

Obviously the negativity in the media to date is a concern. Comments about confusion over the bike lanes, even on the part of cyclists have been amplified. I think we should consider the following...

1. confusion is to be expected when one attempts to judge the finished product on a few unfinished parts (i.e. complaining about not having a clear understanding of the bike lane when it isn't even finished).
2. arguements about the entire bike lane being poorly designed can only be of limited credibility when one only cites issues with one or two specifics.
3. well...I am sure I could think of others...

Yes, these misperceptions need to be corrected.

hear hear

yes a central vocal supportive voice would be wonderful. Is it possible for BikeCalgary to submit article(s) to various written/online media outlets expressing many of the positive remarks contained within these forums?

Having actually ridden the route today I have to say that the reality proved to be significantly better than my impressions based on reading here and on Calgary Herald. This despite the few unfinished bits and signage issues. Only some silly dodging through Kensington backroads/paths for a few blocks (next time I'll just take my lane on 10th St right from the bridge) and approaching 14th St NW. No vehicle incidents were observed and traffic had free flow north right from Kensington so there was no negative influence upon them. In Summary: the ride north was incident free and significantly more pleasant/low stress that I imagined it could be.

Given enough time this single route (hopefully more to follow) should significantly encourage residents within ~5-8km of downtown to try cycle commuting. If other feeder routes were upgraded then motor vehicle traffic would be reduced and shiny happy people will be evident.

Herald "tried to contact bikecalgary"

I have heard from a reliable source within the City's Transportation Planning unit that "the Herald 'said' they tried to contact bikecalgary" but with no luck.

I think it's critical to identify a spokesperson for the media to contact and for this person to be available regularly. Otherwise we will end up with cyclists who do not represent the majority speaking out against the common interest.

Not true

Hi, I had a fairly long conversion with the reporter from the Herald and my comments appear in the story in today's Herald, with pictures! Also had set up to talk with Tom Babin, but it fell through.

also...

BC released a (positive) press-release about the bike lanes to many local media and Aldermen (including both the Herald and Sun).

I lived 2 blocks away from

I lived 2 blocks away from the famed Dunsmuir separated bike lane which runs above and past the B.C. Stadium, the GM Centre in Vancouver.

Also just 5 min. in a different direction from start of the Hornby separated bike lane near the Seaside path along the waterfront. And just another 5 min. further away the Burrard Bridge separated bike lane. (Why am I in Calgary now??) These 3 bike lanes are all in or feeding into downtown Vancouver! I say Calgary drivers....get a grip.

There was high media attention particularily for Burrard Bridge and Hornby but each was for slightly different reasons. City of Vancovuer also for Hornby, had a public open house to get commentary, etc.

In all 3 installations, the Vancouver cycling advocacy group (Vancouver Area Cycling Coalition) had their President and a few others available to speak, defend....over and over and over and nicely....and wherever possible objective statistical data. And they did.

This is a partnership that must be forged with the city -- to educate the public over many months from now on. Otherwise they are left hanging and taking the beating now.

Statistics for Vancouver with pavement counters: http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/transport/cycling/separated/dunsmuir_results...

Love the lanes... now have to ride them

Totally agree with everyone above who said we need to show support by using the lanes. If anyone's driven off-hours on Stoney Trail, it's a total ghost town, and I wonder why the city wasted all kinds of money on it. Drivers will get the same perception if people don't start using the lanes immediately, so we (the engaged people on this forum) should be out on 10St as much as possible over the next few weeks. It's a bit of a detour for me to take it from Beltline to the University, but the idea of seeing people use the lanes will grow support for it...

use 'em or lose em

You're right. We should all make an additional effort to use these lanes even if it's a deviation from our typical routes. And if you do please be courteous to other users and vehicles in the area.

paint

is easy to erase, which is I think part of the point here. I would hope they'd consider extending the lane-reversal to 16th if this "pilot project" works out okay.

Mayor Nenshi's story

Today in the Herald:
http://www.calgaryherald.com/travel/Mayor+Nenshi+criticizes+confusing+10...

This makes a lot of sense. Someone decided to do the technical painting of the road, without the appropriate communication, education and signage. Without that softer side of the project, it was bound to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth. It sounds like council, the bike community, and motorists were all blindsided.

Thankfully, it sounds like he has the strength to manage it for a few weeks and see if it can all be sorted out.

Truth and the media

The story certainly leaves you with that impression, but most of it is implied. I suspect the real truth is that this was a plan approved many years ago and the mayor simply isn't kept in the loop on every implementation done everywhere in the city. I don't know why people are surprised by that.

And of course, ALL the media is having a joyful hay-day with this. It is just so easy to incite people and get them all riled up over something like taking away auto lanes to substitute with bike lanes, particularly at this time of year. But clearly the media is also embellishing the truth for their own purposes. The sad part is that we as cyclists are going to be the ones who suffer from this bad press.

maybe...

...but they did have 4-lane temporary markings painted on there, work stopped for a week and then they moved them around and put the existing stuff in. So, very possible that is was just as much as surprise to everyone as (some of) the media reports imply.

Keep the positive feedback coming!

"Decision will be made based on feedback from all citizens, traffic data, cycling data, safety is particularly important. If controversy escalates Council could ultimately make the decision to remove."

Things all cyclists can do to help spread positivity and support:
- be pro-bike but not anti-car
- communicate key tangible benefits in terms that resonate with those on the fence and naysayers
- encourage people to use the lane
- communicate status of lane (ie not completed yet)
- direct people to city web site and detailed maps of what is going on - link people to information

Well said

Well stated Scott.

And remember, this is the ONLY major N-S connection for cyclists in the entire NW and north central part of the city. Motorists have numerous, convenient and efficient choices. Take this bike lane away now, and we are back to no lanes in the NW -- that's just prioritizing motorist convenience entirely over cyclist safety, in my opinion.

Where have we come as a society when shaving a minute off of the commutes of a small proportion of the city's motorists somehow takes clear priority over basic safety?

54th? really?

Been riding this route for ~10years. The worst part has always been the Varsity part since they put the median and traffic control in place. During winters the bike "lane" has been very sketchy since that's where the snow gets cleared to and with the median there's minimal passing room. A total lose-lose situation at present since it's not maintained by city roads. Would be great if that median was removed, or if it was maintained because then your comment would be true.

Also have to remember that 1 N/S access (10th st) is grossly insufficient so having 54th upgraded would be nice. In the future a 3rd decent N/S route (ie Nosehill Drive area) that would be great and capture the populations of Rocky Ridge, Tuscany, Arbour Lake, Hawkwood, Ranchlands, Silver Springs, Scenic Acres, Bowness. Obviously the NE and Southern populations would also benefit from similar feeder routes but I'm not familiar with those areas. But lets start by supporting 10St.

you mean "parking lane"?

Calling that a bike lane is kind of a cruel joke, at least the several blocks north from The Cliffs since you're allowed to park in it (and people do, since it's in front of their house). Also, all the school-buses park on the east side one...

It's certainly not *that* bad, but where does it get you? Getting over Crowchild and north of there is like 10th street was a few weeks ago, and if you wanted to get into Silver Springs you would have turned left just after the golf course...

Okay connection

I think it's pretty good getting me from the NW to Home Road. I totally agree though about parking...the lane seems to suffer some confusion as to whether it wants to be a bike lane or parking lane.

Just rode north out of

Just rode north out of downtown on it, and I think it is fantastic. I felt like I had plenty of space, and it was much faster, as I usually duck into the alley after 16th and head east a block because there was never enough room to feel safe on 10th. The only weird bit is coming downhill into confederation where they have the bike lane farther out, and a big wide apparently walking lane beside it. Can't imagine using that for a sidewalk. I walk home sometimes that way in the winter and there is so much road snow pilled up, it will probably just be a snow zone, which may be good for keeping a cycling lane clear.

I like it

Rode from the university through downtown and down to the Wild Rose Taproom for a beer today after work, so I had a chance to try the new bike lanes on 10th St. Luxurious! Luved it.

But, I have to admit I totally missed where the bike box is going -- somehow I sailed right by it, but there really wasn't any issue at all turning left off of 10th St to get over to 9A St and the ped bridge over Memorial.

This will be a highly used route.

Rode it.

I live down by Southland & 14th so there is no way that I would normally take 10th street except when I heard of the new bike lane, well, I figured I needed to try it out.

I decided it was a MUP day so took the mountain bike. By Heritage park, over the dam, down along Elbow to Talisman, then meandered on the roads to Eau Clair, along the Bow, by the dumba$$ detour that I guess will be there for a few years, under the LRT to cross the river. That's as far as I knew to go.

Followed another cyclist and found out there was a bike path by the LRT heading North. I would not have found the pathway if I were not following someone else. Anyway, it is pretty easy to link into 10th street BUT, you end up a block short of the new bike lane. Not a problem, I'm a vehicle so I tke the right lane. But it is confusing that the bike lane doesn't start early enough.

The ride North was uneventful. Pleasant to not worry about vehicles cramming you over. Bus passed me and then stopped in a bus zone so I needed to signal and take the lane and go around. Then the Bus passed me, then I passed the bus, then it passed me and because no one got off for a few stops I never passed it again. BUT, this could be an issue in rush hour so folks will need to either be fast enough to stay in front of the buses or slower and stay behind.

The lane ends at Northland drive. Now what? No signs, didn't know where to go so turned around and headed back down 10th. I was passed by a couple of cyclists heading uphill at Confederation. But caught them at SAIT and was coasting faster than them. Now the problem is, with cyclists going at a higher rate of speed, and not knowing their proficiency level, one needs to give them more room. But, the bike lane is not that wide so you have to either slow down or take the lane and pass.

The only other issue is the "parking lane", "bike lane", "driving lane". The problem is that the bike lane is then in the door zone so you have to ride at the very edge of the bike lane or slightly in the traffic lane.

Overall, this is a great start. Now, let's do it to Elbow Drive or MacLeod trail.

Done it a few times...every time I learn something new

The other day, I hit 10th St solo just to try it out. Going up the hill, there was a car with a flat tire stopped in the bike lane. Stuff like that will happen, but now the cars really don't expect a slow bike in THEIR right hand lane. With a lot of car traffic, I'm thinking that hopping up onto the sidewalk might be safer the next time. Coming back down the hill, a couple of tree pruning trucks were parked in the lane trimming trees just below the SAIT turnoff. That wasn't a big problem, as downhill you can easily merge over at the same speed as the vehicular traffic.

Today, my wife and I headed up the hill running errands. There were a couple of people slogging slowly up the hill, beside each other and talking. They didn't go into single file after voice and bells, so I headed around them. There was lots of time, but after I got back into the bike lane, a bus that was coming up the hill decided to school me and give me a long blast of his horn. Granted, it wasn't a bus normally on that route, as it was an articulated shuttle for the CTrain outage...hopefully the regular route guys get used to bicycles. Casual weekend riders without etiquette are going to be an issue.

When returning back south on 10th, crossing 16th Ave, we waited for the light. The left turners coming up the hill get an advance green, but after the light turned for us, two more left turners snuck through. We started off and another one came flying up the hill and came across. He was obviously fixated on the truck beside us, and was sure that he could beat him. He sure wasn't expecting to see me in the middle of the intersection in the bike/bus lane. He stopped in the middle of the intersection and I went in front of him and my wife passed behind him. That could have hurt!

Interesting...

Not terrible

never thought I'd say this... but that article actually wasn't terrible!  AND the responses weren't written by pscho's.  Whodathunk it?  (guess it must be a holiday version since even less folks read the Sun on holidays)  ;)

Kaos

Lol! All it needed was the sound of crickets chirping. I have been riding 10 St every day, at various times (7 am, 8:30am, 5 pm, 4 pm) since the lanes went in and I still haven't seen any chaos, or snarls, or jams or nightmares. Too bad cuz I think it would have been fun to see some chaos! All of the media reports have pictures or video and there are never very many cars visible.

The silly part about the

The silly part about the complaints about traffic are that it bottlenecks on Kensignton anyway.  Sure you may have to go a bit slower down the hill, but you are going to be in stop and go traffic anyway. 

Good Point!

I forgot how much I hate that part (on the extremely, extremely, like once every 1 or 2 years, rare occasion that I am down there in my car during rush hour)!!

Are there plans for a bike

Are there plans for a bike box at the North end? The lane ends right at the intersection. I need to continue down Northmount, so I'm not going to hug the curb and end up  stuck in the turn lane going up 14th. Before the bike lane I just took the right lane and everything was fine. Now no one seems to know what to do there.

No

Not on their plans. This northern bit is separate from the stuff south of Confederation -- only the stuff south of Confederation is the "pilot project" and I *believe* they were designed separately (!!).

I also really wish we could have the transit + bike lane on Northmount back again (been close to 10 years ago it was removed)?

Bike Box for Turning Left at the South End

Shouldn't this be on 10th St? Let bikes get into the left lane in front of cars, then give them an advanced signal so they can turn left through the hatched area in front of 4th Ave.

In my limited experience with bike boxes, that is how I've seen them work. Obviously the offset between 5th Ave and 4th Ave makes this a unique situation, but I still think this would work better.

Riding south down 10th, want

Riding south down 10th, want to turn left. Few scenarios:

Bike Box on 5th (as it is now)

1. Green light for 10th St traffic

- either must merge with traffic (if confident) or use bike box

2. Red light for 10th traffic

- either must pull in front of stopped car in left lane, potentially enraging driver, or wait until safe to enter bike box and continue along. You can turn right on red, enter box, then turn right back onto 10th from bike box, and turn left.

Bike Box on 10th (as you suggest)

3. Green light for 10th St traffic

- must merge with traffic no matter what, bike box ineffective

4. Red light for 10th traffic

- bike box effective as it gives you space to get in front and shows drivers you should be there.

 

Only when the bike box is on 5th does it provide safe options at all times. This is why i think the decision was made for 5th over 10th.