Drove the new bike lane on 40th Ave NW this morning. They have only done two blocks of 40th ave (essentially connecting the existing bike lanes on 37th St NW eastward, but there is a longer term proposal to connect from Brentwood west past Market Mall and all the way to the bike lanes on 53rd St NW.
It's not great pavement, but the extra space for cyclists is appreciated. There is a very interesting treatment heading west-bound at the four-way stop on 37th St NW: cyclists turning left (south) to take the bike lanes on 37th are directed to a cycling-only left-turn lane between the left-turn and straight-through travel lanes for motor vehicles. I am not sure if it was necessary or not, but I guess it mitigates having to make TWO lane changes now that bikes have their own travel lane against the curb. I guess it is good that it directs cyclists to make a left turn from an apporpriate position on the road, rather than from the right curb like some think they should do. But you still have to make a lane change across traffic to get there, so I am not sure how well received it will be.
I wonder if it was a mistake
Submitted by Richard Z on
I wonder if it was a mistake to line up the dashed lane marking with the right inted of the left bike lane marking at the intersection.
The whole thing looks very much like a through bike lane. The standard treatment for through bike lanes is to just stop the bike lane ahead of the intersection, then bikes and cars share the right lane, then the right turning cars and bikes move right and the bikes enter their own lane in the middle of the roadway. The new NACTO guidelines discourage this and intead suggest a diagonal continuation of the bike lane. See here:
http://nacto.org/cities-for-cycling/design-guide/intersection-treatments...
However, in this case, it's not right turning traffic but through traffic that would have to cross the bike lane. It would be unusual to give bikes the ROW in that case. Right?
Not sure
Submitted by DarrenB on
I think the intended use is what I did in the video: stay in the curb (through) bike lane until you approach the intersection. Through traffic (cars or bikes) merge together, which admittedly is much tighter now and I see as a negative. If you are going to turn left, then you negotiate a lane change into the automobile travel lane and then easily enter the left-turn bike lane.
Having ridden it a couple of times now, I don't like this configuration much. If you have to go left, you still need to negotiate a lane change through traffic to enter the left-turn lane (but you would have had to do that before anyways, so no gain). The big problem is that the extra width required for the left-turn bike lane now removes the curb-side bike lane on the right side of the road and all the motor vehicle traffic has to move over into the space where cyclists will need to be if they want to ride straight through the intersection or make a right turn. There is a good chance a cyclist will be in the driver's blind spot when they make the move right (to merge with the disappearing bike lane), causing significant danger to the cyclist. I'm afraid this might have not been thought through very well, or I am REALLY not getting what the engineers had in mind when they designed the intersection.
Left...no big deal
Submitted by bclark on
Okay, I haven't ridden it yet but, from the video the left turn box seems to make sense to me. It looks to give cyclists a frame of reference, or something to aim for, that puts them closer to the right place than turning from the right curb or riding through the crosswalk, etc. That's a good thing IMO. The curb squeeze is concerning though and should be brought to the City's attention. Basically, the road layout looks to assume that cyclists will only carry straight through. Maybe I'll try and swing up past it on my way home today...get a first-hand look.
Ride it in traffic
Submitted by DarrenB on
If you are going to ride it, do it with the traffic. Wait in the bike lane at the lights by the Brentwood LRT until traffic builds up, then ride with them down to the four-way stop. You will see what I mean about three through-lanes squeezing into one narrow lane in my post below.
A sign like this positioned at the end of the west-bound bike lane next to the curb might go a long way to mitigate problems:
Tried it...
Submitted by bclark on
I managed to get to that last set of lights on red, as you suggested. Traffic didn't move too fast towards the four-way and I was able to easily get in via a slight break in traffic following my signalling my intent to merge (i.e. left signal). This time my experience was positive, though I can see what you mean by the squeeze. I think a merge sign (showing bikes merging into the vehicle lane) would be very appropriate here.
I did stop to watch the intersection for a bit. Only one other cyclist came through. I guess my two observations would be that:
1. The underpass beneath Crowchild Trail to get to the westbound bike lane is a bit overwhelming when I put myself in the saddle of an "interested but concerned" cyclist.
2. The disappearance of the westbound bike lane into the four-way stop doesn't lend itself well to establishing a visual connection with the lanes continuing northbound on 37th Street.
It seems there should be some curbwork done. Perhaps that is the long term plan?
I think they were just
Submitted by Richard Z on
I think they were just designing the left turn for bikes the same way you'd design a through-lane/bike pocket according to AASHTO (and presumably TAC) guidelines. I think they should just not have painted the broken line at the turn pocket -- it just looks like a barrier in front of the bike left turn.
I'm not sure what the alternative would have been. If it had been a signalized intersection with high traffic volume, maybe a two-stage turn bike box (ahead of the crosswalk on 37 St SB). But at a 4-way stop I don't think bike boxes make sense. They could have also adopted NACTO guidelines for through bike lanes, with a designated lane for cyclists to cross to the left. As this would have implied that cars ging straight or right would be crossing the bike lane, they'd have to yield to bikes. In the current scenario, I imagine cyclists turning left have to yield to cars going straight or turning right.
I find it odd
Submitted by DarrenB on
I find it odd that they went out of their way to create a left-turn only bike lane when there is nothing to accommodate straight-through or right-turning bicycles. A left turn lane can easily be shared by bikes and cars, and getting to it requires the same level of effort (lane change across through traffic, which might be stressful for some cyclists). And now, going straight through or turning right on a bike is a lot trickier to manoeuvre, even though most bike traffic would be going these directions.
I think they should have eliminated the left-turn bike lane altogether and used the space to make a wider curb lane to be shared by cars ans bikes so that the pinch point is eliminated.
A wider curb lane and taking
Submitted by Richard Z on
A wider curb lane and taking the bike lane all the way to the intersection would, though, encourage bikes and cars to oull up to the stop line side-by-side, increasingthe right hook danger. The turn pocket also encourages left turns from a proper position. On balance, it looks pretty good to me.
Ride it
Submitted by DarrenB on
Ride it -- there is no indication to cars to watch for cyclists on the right and they just (naturally) drift to the curb without looking. They are too distracted by the cars on the inside lane that need to merge right to get in the through (curb) lane, plus the sudden narrowing in the road and the wierd left-turn lanes. If there were plenty of room to negotiate a merge into the traffic through lane as a cyclist before all the traffic merged from two through lanes to one, I would agree with you. But that's not the case. It is much harder now to "secure the lane" as a cyclist because of the narrowing of the road and that two travel lanes + one bike lane now merge into one shared through lane.
Daily
Submitted by xcrider on
I ride this way almost daily and have never really had an issues going south. I would reccommend that people ride the line so cars can see you there as the road curves. Not sure the turn lane at the 4 way is worth while as it just adds to the paint on the road, everyone is stopped anyway. The biggest issue with the area is going north with the construction right now. Cars want to turn right out of the LRT parking area on the red and can't make the tight corner clean causing you to have to hit the brakes so as not to Tbone them. Not sure if they don't see bikes because of all the signs and barriers or they just think they can make it before you get there.